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human beings have dreams even dogs have

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dreams but not you

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you are just a machine an imitation of

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life

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can a robot write a symphony can a robot

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turn a canvas into a beautiful

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masterpiece

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that's a clip from the movie irobot it

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covers territory that's pretty well worn

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at this point

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will consciousness rise up in the robots

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and take over the world

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but i think there's a deeper and more

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relevant and certainly more immediate

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question

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that comes to mind with what it means to

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being human

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and it's explored quite beautifully by

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today's guest

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connor habib i now

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use the question rather than what is

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consciousness or that

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that is important to me but i think what

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is the human being

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is my question that i try to unfurl

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everything from

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i can't just do this [\h__\h] thing

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which people do all the time which i

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find completely objectionable which is

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well you just take the good and you

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leave the bad just move on with the good

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stuff because that doesn't address the

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foundational thing that you

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bring up all the time what i need to do

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is find out how the good

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and the bad are entangled and liberate

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that philosophy from

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itself welcome to skeptico where we

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explore controversial science and

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spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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i'm your host alex sacaris and today we

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welcome connor habib

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back to skeptico connor is the creator

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and host

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of against everyone with connor habib a

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fantastically named

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interview podcast video series that

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explores

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sexuality spirituality science oh and

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just a whole bunch of other stuff that

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is always interesting especially when

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conor does it he has a new book in the

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works or it might even be out we'll have

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to hear about that

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it's titled hawk mountain and he

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recently

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pinged me about why evil matters

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so we're going to have to see why he

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wanted to

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poke the bear there connor welcome back

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to skeptico thanks so much for joining

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me

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hey alex it's really nice to talk with

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you again hi

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so what is going on what's going on with

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against

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everyone and what's going on with the

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new book and what's going on in ireland

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yeah so um i think since we last talked

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um against everyone has pretty much

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taken off it's gone it's going really

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great

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um and uh i've just sort of been getting

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deeper

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letting myself go a little bit more

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because the whole point was i wanted big

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talk not small talk and so just letting

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myself get

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deeper into topics with thinkers who i

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respect

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and kind of abandoning also i'm moving

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away from la

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i moved out of that sort of current of

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you always have to be visible and

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successful like i kind of moved

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out of that when i moved to ireland i

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was like i'm just going to do what i

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care about and then

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surprise surprise of course the show

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blows up after that right

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so there's that um the the

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the novel i wrote which is called hawk

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mountain um

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it doesn't come out till next year but i

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did sell it which is

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great it's a very dark very dark book

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about um repression and and love

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and uh and and murder so it's a bit of a

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crime book

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um and i'm very excited for that i've

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always wanted to

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be a novelist my whole life so that was

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like one of the unrealized dreams and

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now that's coming out next year

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and ireland's great the last time we

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were i was on your show we i was just

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about to move here

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um and uh now i'm here and it feels

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exactly

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right so yeah perfect great to hear

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and i just popped up for people who are

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watching the youtube and we're just talk

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chatting about you know this has always

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been a podcast skeptico and it still is

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primarily a podcast that's how it

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reaches people but i have this really

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cool new tool

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called the script and i was just saying

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how it allows me to kind of

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crank out the video at the same time so

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i was

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pulling up the video if you ever want to

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watch that on youtube of

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your excellent show against

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everyone and i've listened to a bunch of

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episodes

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i've made notes on some of the ones that

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you sent me that you thought would be

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particularly relevant to what we might

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talk about today but

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even that might be outdated as this

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conversation

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flows and goes on but i really do

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like the way that you're diving deeper

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and deeper into these topics

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even though i disagree with you about 90

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of the time

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the intellectual rigor and the depth

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that you bring to this which

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is really what these conversations

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should be about

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so let's see where would you like to

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start before i give you the whole

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skeptico

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drill um

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yeah i mean i think something that i

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hear on your show all the time

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um that i think i would like to start

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with is something that we do agree on

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and i want to disagree that we

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don't agree on 90 but let's see um

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is uh you know the idea that reality

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claims

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are first and foremost it's something

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that i'm i'm coming up against

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in in my academic work a lot

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like i'm reading these anthropology

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books where someone will say

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you know i met this indigenous person

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and he told me that a wolf threw up foam

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on him and gave him the cure for

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smallpox and then they'll say

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so what does it tell us about the

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kinship structure and i'm like what the

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[\h__\h]

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what what do you mean kinship structure

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like why why are we not talking about

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the vomiting talking wolf like

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that's very important you know so i've

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been seeing how that sort of rife

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through everything in a real first-hand

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way that

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in a place where it's supposed to be

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more understood more accepted in

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anthropology now in fairness

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in academia i think anthropologists have

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gone the farthest or the furthest and

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[Music]

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in investigating reality claims

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ontologies metaphysics that kind of

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stuff and really

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actually trying to understand but

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not i mean it's still not enough as far

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as i'm concerned so

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yeah so i just want to start i think

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maybe there like the

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the importance of the reality claims and

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um

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well you know that is an excellent point

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to start on and

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agree totally we are in sync about that

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and

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you know you've kind of heard me go on

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and on

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about that in terms of the book why evil

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matters and the claims

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of scientology founder elrond hubbard

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and who is in the desert and is

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summoning

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the antichrist doing this ritual in

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order to bring forth the

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antichrist and the [\h__\h] of babylon and

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all that stuff and then the

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scholar that ivan and i'm not even going

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to mention his name because this poor

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guy

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you know i'll mention his name because i

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really like you hugh urban wrote a great

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book called

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magia sexuality about how um

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magic and sexual liberation are tied

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into

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certain left-wing causes and social and

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cultural change and that's a really

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great book

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but i think you're right to to make a

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point

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out of that mistake of his which is

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to be like well it matters that they

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believed in it it's not

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that does matter but that's not all that

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matters and to stop there

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is it's not even just to stop there it's

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to start there

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right right you know i mean because the

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starting point needs to be

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and you know it's tough because we can

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immediately go to

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inside baseball and we just might as

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well go there since that's where we're

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going to go anyway

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because you know the flip side of the

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reality claim

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thing is that we really don't have a

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handle on what reality is to begin with

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so it's almost like it's like

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this kind of paradoxical

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well aren't they right in a way that it

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only matters what you believe

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since there isn't any grounding in

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reality anyway

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and the problem with that okay of course

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is the same problem that uh

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we have with atheism is that no if you

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don't get the first question right

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if you don't understand the nature of

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consciousness and that

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you're you're not wrestling with whether

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consciousness is real or an illusion

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well then you can't move on to the

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second part of the question and say

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well you know none of it is is real

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because we don't really have a handle on

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whether we're in a simulation or whether

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uh

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reality is what we think it is in terms

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of our five senses or any of the rest of

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our extended reality is

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interfering in their spirit world all

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those things could come into play

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but we shouldn't give those guys a pass

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and let them at the table

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as if they've passed the preliminary

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exam

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because they haven't so hugh urban

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probably

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has because he's like you said he's

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exploring

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sex magic and he's looking at tantric

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cultures in india and all the rest that

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but when he makes the conscious decision

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to leave that behind

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and play the game of materialistic

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atheistic religious studies where

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consciousness is an illusion

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then he's i think he's given up his

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right to engage in that dialogue in a

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real way

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he has to pick and he's in a forced

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choice kind of position because he can't

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hold his job he can't publish

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he can't be continue to pick up his

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00:09:45,030 --> 00:09:41,279
paycheck

286
00:09:46,550 --> 00:09:45,040
if he abandons the the dogma

287
00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:46,560
but at the same time he can't really

288
00:09:48,949 --> 00:09:48,320
engage in this conversation with you and

289
00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:48,959
if

290
00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:50,080
he doesn't go there what do you think

291
00:09:53,190 --> 00:09:52,000
about that yeah yeah i think that's

292
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:53,200
great i mean i think you're

293
00:09:59,350 --> 00:09:57,360
i think a way to say it is you know um

294
00:10:00,790 --> 00:09:59,360
if you don't have if you don't pick the

295
00:10:02,790 --> 00:10:00,800
right question you know

296
00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:02,800
like all the answers to the questions

297
00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:04,000
that you pose

298
00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:05,760
will be skewed that doesn't mean

299
00:10:10,550 --> 00:10:08,160
valueless it just means like

300
00:10:12,069 --> 00:10:10,560
you're going to further obfuscate as you

301
00:10:15,269 --> 00:10:12,079
go on for me

302
00:10:16,949 --> 00:10:15,279
i i now use the question rather than

303
00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:16,959
what is consciousness or

304
00:10:20,389 --> 00:10:19,040
that that is important to me but i think

305
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:20,399
what is the human being

306
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:22,399
is my question that i try to unfurl

307
00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:23,600
everything from

308
00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:26,640
that's i think a fundamental question um

309
00:10:29,269 --> 00:10:27,279
there aren't

310
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:29,279
very many fundamental questions that are

311
00:10:32,230 --> 00:10:30,800
close to what is the nature of

312
00:10:33,509 --> 00:10:32,240
consciousness but i think that that

313
00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:33,519
one's close and

314
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:35,760
that's close or it has a parallel course

315
00:10:40,069 --> 00:10:36,640
to it

316
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:40,079
um and i think you know can i pause can

317
00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:40,399
i

318
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:42,399
have you pause there and tell us more

319
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:43,920
about what you mean

320
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:46,959
what that means to you particularly in

321
00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:49,200
the topic areas that people are going to

322
00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:50,240
most

323
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:52,480
be associated with your work in terms of

324
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,399
social sexuality

325
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:56,880
uh social justice issues and those kind

326
00:11:01,350 --> 00:10:58,800
of things because

327
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:01,360
there's an unwrapping that i want to do

328
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,000
there

329
00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:04,160
but i'm intrigued by where you're going

330
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:06,240
with that because i think that is

331
00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:08,160
maybe you're going to leapfrog me and i

332
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:10,640
want to be ready for that that's a

333
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:14,640
question i suppose what is a human being

334
00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:17,600
yeah i mean i think for me the why i

335
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:20,160
would ask that is because it

336
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:22,720
just i would say if nothing else it's

337
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:24,160
it's not nothing else but if nothing

338
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:24,640
else

339
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:26,320
it brings a sense of warmth to the

340
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:28,560
question of consciousness we can ask

341
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:30,800
very cold dissective questions about

342
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:31,680
consciousness

343
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:34,480
but seeing what is the human being

344
00:11:38,389 --> 00:11:36,160
begins to include

345
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:38,399
i think for me questions about love

346
00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:40,720
questions about feeling about relating

347
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,160
about connectivity

348
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:44,720
about that kind of stuff in a way that i

349
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:47,120
feel sometimes that even people who are

350
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:50,000
doing this really great work about

351
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:51,040
consciousness

352
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:52,800
can tend to leave things a little bit

353
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:54,320
cold and then i think well that's not

354
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:55,760
including everything that we need to

355
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:56,720
include here

356
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,680
because there are states of

357
00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:59,360
consciousness that lend themselves to

358
00:12:01,670 --> 00:12:00,079
warmth

359
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,680
um states of consciousness that lead

360
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:03,519
themselves to sense of separation

361
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:06,079
to incompleteness to intensities all

362
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:06,880
that kind of stuff

363
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:10,000
to to to to love to desire and

364
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:12,320
so i think asking this question what is

365
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:14,639
the human being brings in and invites in

366
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:15,040
that

367
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:17,120
um angle of it which i think is very

368
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:18,880
important i'm not saying

369
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:20,320
you know maybe it's just a semantic

370
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:22,079
issue or you would identify it as such

371
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:22,800
but i just

372
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:24,880
i i think you would know what i mean

373
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:26,240
when i say some people doing

374
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:28,800
consciousness exploration are also very

375
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:31,279
cold and clinical in a way that excludes

376
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:32,800
a whole aspect of being human

377
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,720
which i object to well i think that's

378
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:38,560
i think that's quite brilliant and i

379
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,279
think that's also part of the

380
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:44,000
i mean everything has the potential to

381
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:45,600
be co-opted

382
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:48,240
and i would suggest that you really put

383
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:48,880
your finger

384
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:52,399
on a way that consciousness is

385
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:55,839
and certainly will be co-opted

386
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:58,320
and that is in this kind of scientific

387
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:59,680
technocratic

388
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,200
what what is the quantum level

389
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,959
understanding of consciousness and that

390
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:04,079
needs to be the base of our

391
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:05,279
understanding of it

392
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,920
as if we would even understand what

393
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:09,519
quantum level stuff

394
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:11,600
is i think your warmth thing is

395
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,720
beautiful

396
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:14,720
thanks thanks yeah i mean the backdoor

397
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:16,639
materialism happens everywhere

398
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:18,880
and it's just like it's infuriating when

399
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:20,079
you spot it

400
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:22,079
in people that are otherwise doing good

401
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:23,440
work because you're like

402
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:26,320
come on like like you're going down the

403
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:28,480
right path but there's a gravity

404
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,120
because materialism is dense there's a

405
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:33,279
gravity to it and that pulls you

406
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,839
back into it or or maybe it's like you

407
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:37,440
have to constantly

408
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:40,880
materialism

409
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:43,040
like a seal coming through like a hole

410
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:45,040
in the ice you know for like to see the

411
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:46,320
rest of the world

412
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:50,240
so i think you're right and um yeah

413
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:51,760
i'm glad you like it good we're off to a

414
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:54,480
nice start so far off to a nice start so

415
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:57,680
let's crash it into the room

416
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:01,680
let's do it so you know related to this

417
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:04,959
i think is the issue of

418
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:07,920
who is doing that social engineering

419
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,199
that we're talking about

420
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,199
because i think we can easily kind of

421
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:13,199
blow past that right and say

422
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:15,680
they're co-opting and then we never saw

423
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:16,399
him say okay

424
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:19,920
well who is this co-opting

425
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:22,639
or we're saying oh poor hugh urban he

426
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:23,360
can't

427
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:26,720
doesn't

428
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:30,560
toe the party line who is maintaining

429
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:33,680
the party line what uh how who is

430
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:34,560
imposing

431
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:37,360
the sanctions on that kind of talk and

432
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:39,440
then i would switch over to kind of

433
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,920
the the topic in the subject area where

434
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,079
you've kind of

435
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,480
made a lot of made a lot of noise a lot

436
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:48,800
of positive noise and raised a lot of

437
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:51,199
consciousness about issues that are real

438
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:53,120
and are troubling to people who do care

439
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,000
about true

440
00:14:58,910 --> 00:14:56,000
social justice and i'm talking about

441
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,920
sexuality and

442
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:01,040
lgbtq and now they have

443
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:04,560
the whole alphabet in there and we joke

444
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:05,680
we joke about that

445
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:08,560
but there's a realness to that there's

446
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:09,040
real

447
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:11,440
social issues there but the part that i

448
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:12,639
want to explore is

449
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:15,519
it's also clearly in my opinion it's a

450
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:17,040
psyop right it's

451
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,079
partially a psyop and

452
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:22,240
do we have to care do we have to

453
00:15:28,189 --> 00:15:24,880
deconstruct to the extent to which

454
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:28,199
we're now being pushed down towards a

455
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:31,120
transgender agenda that may have some

456
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:32,320
real issues in it

457
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:35,600
but also seems to have issues that

458
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:38,959
resonate with a very weird a.i

459
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:46,230
orwellian craziness

460
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:49,519
tell you what to cap off that little uh

461
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:52,399
intro there i recently did an uh an

462
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:53,199
interview with

463
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:55,759
david ike who i think is just you know

464
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:56,720
david ike

465
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:00,240
the first thing comes to mind

466
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:03,440
lizard people exactly love it

467
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:05,839
the lizard guy right the reptilian guy

468
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:06,800
right which

469
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:10,079
is a a wonderful way that we uh

470
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:11,279
pigeonhole people

471
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:15,120
we uh limit people's ability to speak

472
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:16,800
although now they've gone the next level

473
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:18,959
with david of course and he's been

474
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:22,079
uh banned from youtube

475
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,839
and from facebook which we now

476
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,759
are comfortable with the idea that

477
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:29,279
people can be banned

478
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,399
you know david is an advocate of very

479
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:34,560
much a non-violence guy

480
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:37,279
advocate of kind of love your enemy

481
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:37,680
don't

482
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,199
engage at the same energetic level

483
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:44,160
of the people who are about hate and

484
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,959
he's been like that for the longest time

485
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:48,959
this is of course a voice that we don't

486
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:50,160
want to hear right

487
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:52,959
and it's also he the the whole idea i

488
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:53,360
think

489
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:55,279
it's interesting just for all to all

490
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:56,800
look in the mirror and say

491
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,279
five years ago even certainly 10 years

492
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:01,519
ago but even five years ago

493
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:05,120
if someone told you that we would ban

494
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:08,160
people from one of the primary

495
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:09,039
communication

496
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:11,439
platforms larger than any of the

497
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:12,559
television network

498
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:15,439
platforms that people would be banned

499
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:15,839
for

500
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,959
advocating free speech free thought

501
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:21,360
and open thinking we would have thought

502
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:23,360
that was impossible

503
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:26,079
and now we accept it in the same way we

504
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:28,079
as we just put on that mask

505
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:31,200
to go outside so here's david ike i

506
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:32,400
think it touches on a lot of things

507
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:33,679
we're talking about

508
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,840
and i think it'll maybe springboard us

509
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:37,360
into a discussion about

510
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,200
evil consciousness you know you are an

511
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:43,440
infinite expression of consciousness

512
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:46,240
and that will never allow itself to be

513
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:47,760
subjugated

514
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:50,799
and uh intimidated into submission

515
00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:54,000
by um by the said psychopaths and uh and

516
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,000
idiots

517
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,640
if you can isolate five sense mind in in

518
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:00,080
this symbolic bubble

519
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:03,919
and then within the bubble feed

520
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:08,400
that isolated mind a sense of reality

521
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,640
by controlling the education system all

522
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,480
the way through the formative years by

523
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:14,160
controlling the um

524
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,000
the mainstream media the silicon valley

525
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:17,919
media and and so on

526
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,360
then you can first of all isolate

527
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:23,600
mind from expanded consciousness and

528
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:25,440
then you can program that

529
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:29,520
isolated mind with a sense of reality

530
00:18:33,789 --> 00:18:32,720
which is all about little me it's all

531
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,799
about

532
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:36,240
self-identification with labels what i

533
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:38,000
call imr

534
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,960
i am a man i am a woman i am our black i

535
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,240
am our white i am

536
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:44,240
i am this sexuality i am our that

537
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,840
sexuality

538
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:47,360
okay well something there and i'll edit

539
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:48,880
that down a little bit but i want you to

540
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:49,520
get the full

541
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,799
flavor of uh lizard guy

542
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,400
he's just a lizard guy talks about

543
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:56,559
aliens and reptilians

544
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,559
he didn't mention it in that clip but

545
00:19:02,070 --> 00:18:59,600
that's who he is

546
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:02,080
he's the reptilian guy so what did you

547
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:02,960
think anything

548
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:05,679
popped in mine there yeah okay so a few

549
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:06,240
things

550
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:08,799
so first i want to say about david ike i

551
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:09,679
don't know

552
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:12,000
that much about him other than my

553
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:13,520
general impression and i watched that

554
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:15,200
documentary about him which i thought

555
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:16,240
was

556
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,360
which he made with his family i think

557
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:21,679
and was i'm gonna get to the clip in a

558
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:23,120
second but which i thought was actually

559
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:24,640
a tremendous disappointment and

560
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,360
disservice

561
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:27,360
because he's self-censored like there

562
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:28,960
was nothing about lizard people in that

563
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:30,799
documentary and i thought

564
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:32,559
was the lizard people thing i know that

565
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:34,559
that's real so why wasn't there any of

566
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:36,080
this and it was all about consciousness

567
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:37,679
this consciousness that in a way that i

568
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:38,080
actually

569
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:41,280
thought with due respect to him even

570
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:42,720
though i don't know if he deserves it

571
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:43,600
because i don't really know him that

572
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:44,240
well

573
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:47,200
um that that uh i thought was rather

574
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:48,160
actually basic

575
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:49,679
i think that those kinds of thoughts

576
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:51,280
about consciousness

577
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:52,799
yeah sure they're interesting i mean

578
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:55,200
they're the things that pop out about

579
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:56,240
silicon valley

580
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:58,880
and um how we deal with identities and

581
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:00,880
all that but i don't find anything that

582
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:03,520
like wow we need to like turn to david

583
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:04,559
ike for answers

584
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:07,440
here it seems actually rather simplistic

585
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,080
for me

586
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:10,320
i am definitely interested in how

587
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,159
identities become

588
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:14,720
um i i said years ago that i thought

589
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:15,280
that they

590
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:17,840
were becoming new nationalisms that as

591
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:18,840
our

592
00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:22,400
faith in relationship to the state

593
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:24,799
started to erode we started building

594
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,640
what we consider to be new states

595
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:28,640
and those are our identities and we can

596
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:30,080
tell that we treat them like states

597
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:31,200
because

598
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:32,960
when someone gets the language wrong we

599
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,880
banish them and we exile them from the

600
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,400
state if they don't say the right

601
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:39,039
you know words now i also think we're

602
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,720
getting something from it it's informing

603
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:42,400
us it's educating us all that kind of

604
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,679
stuff i don't want to just say oh it's

605
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:45,360
purely bad i think we get something from

606
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:46,799
it but then i've also

607
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:48,400
you know recently on my show talked to

608
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:50,559
political philosopher michael hart

609
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,039
and you know he and his writing partner

610
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:54,960
antonio negri designate these

611
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:57,360
identities as uh instances of extensions

612
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,640
of private property

613
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:01,200
and i find that very interesting too and

614
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:03,200
those things do overlap with some of

615
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:03,760
what

616
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:05,600
david's saying in that clip which i find

617
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,080
you know that's that's provocative that

618
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:10,799
um actually we're being told to sort of

619
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:12,080
densify

620
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:14,799
our sense of i am this i am not but in

621
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:16,720
terms of property

622
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:19,600
in terms of nationalism and in ways that

623
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:20,240
create

624
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,080
walls between us that become almost uh

625
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,640
or seemingly insurmountable and in fact

626
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,640
very many of the same people who say

627
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,480
that they are against walls

628
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,559
against borders and all that kind of

629
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,240
stuff are creating

630
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:36,480
infinitely dense borders by turning

631
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:37,760
aspects of their

632
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:40,799
uh consciousness into bound up

633
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:43,280
walled you know communities so i would

634
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:44,240
agree with him

635
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:46,720
there um but i did think i needed to add

636
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:48,400
that caveat because

637
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:51,840
um i get a little frustrated uh

638
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:55,120
turning to him in the sense that there

639
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,240
are lots of people

640
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:58,080
working on this problem in very

641
00:22:02,789 --> 00:21:59,840
interesting and i think more

642
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,799
complicated ways so i listened to a

643
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:04,640
bunch of the shows that you sent me

644
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,840
and i i don't see where we're really

645
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:10,000
getting at some of the issues that were

646
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:11,360
that you're talking about

647
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:14,080
in this deeper way because i think

648
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:15,679
fundamental to

649
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,760
what ike is saying there what i want you

650
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,120
to respond to

651
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:22,000
is that fundamentally no no it's okay

652
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:23,600
because i like everything that you said

653
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,280
i love

654
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:27,200
no no i said okay because i want to hear

655
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:28,480
you you're against me

656
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,799
i'm not cool with that no i just want to

657
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,919
hear okay like

658
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:34,000
what what was it okay what do you have

659
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:35,679
okay what do you have bring it yeah

660
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:37,679
okay yeah i'm just saying i'm sorry

661
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:39,679
connor i don't know what but

662
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:42,159
i i really appreciate and i want people

663
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,600
to know this i really appreciate

664
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:45,919
the the level of and from the beginning

665
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:47,039
you know we've known each other for a

666
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:48,799
long time yeah yeah

667
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:50,400
and you reached out to me years ago and

668
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:52,559
i was like this guy's brilliant

669
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,400
this guy's brilliant you know he's on

670
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:56,159
all this stuff and then the last time we

671
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:56,640
talked

672
00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:59,280
and uh uh oh you know you've always had

673
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,880
the rudolph steiner stuff which i never

674
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:02,559
quite understood and unpacked

675
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:04,400
and i still remember the quote i use it

676
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:06,559
all the time you know in the quote about

677
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,360
uh about riddles steiner and evil and

678
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,720
you're kind of we're having this

679
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,240
conversation i love where we kind of get

680
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:13,919
frustrated with each other and you reach

681
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:15,440
a point you go look here's what snyder

682
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:16,000
said

683
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:17,840
you can be the biggest creep in the

684
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:19,520
world the biggest evil doer

685
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:22,080
in the world and then you die and you

686
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:23,440
have to deal with the consequences of

687
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:24,960
that and then you come back and you can

688
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:26,480
do it again and again and again and

689
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,520
starner says

690
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:30,000
here's the ultimate consequence if you

691
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:32,159
do it 13 times in a row then your soul

692
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:33,440
is destroyed

693
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:36,720
i think that's i think that's kind of

694
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:39,520
absurd in a way and it's a strange kind

695
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:39,760
of

696
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:43,039
backdoor materialism in in a

697
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:45,919
kind of way but at the same time it gets

698
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:47,679
at something that is probably

699
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:49,600
a core truth that i think you're

700
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:51,200
pointing to and that's that

701
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:54,320
let's not get too hung up on

702
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:57,279
the evil that you may be subjecting your

703
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:58,000
soul to

704
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,039
because you will deal with the

705
00:24:01,830 --> 00:24:01,520
consequences of that and you will leave

706
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:01,840
the

707
00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:04,960
that you encounter

708
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,320
and that's a horrible thing and you

709
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:08,000
should definitely try and avoid doing

710
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:08,480
that

711
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,360
but from a societal cultural level let's

712
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:13,120
not get too worked up about that that

713
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:15,120
has to do with you and your life review

714
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:18,159
buddy and if you can handle the karma

715
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:21,360
have at it so i think where i

716
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:24,320
appreciate what ike is saying and i

717
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:24,720
think

718
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:28,000
that it it really is deep in its

719
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:28,880
simplicity

720
00:24:32,549 --> 00:24:30,720
in a way that i i don't think you really

721
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:32,559
responded to so i'd go back to your

722
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:33,039
comment

723
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:34,480
i'd wind it all the way back to the

724
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:36,480
beginning and i'd say

725
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:39,760
you know in his uh in his movie or

726
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:40,960
whatever and i haven't seen the movie

727
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:42,000
you're referring to he doesn't talk

728
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:43,279
about lizard people you know

729
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:45,279
didn't talk about lizard people with me

730
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:46,640
either because we got it we had a

731
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:47,919
million other things

732
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:50,400
to kind of uh talk about but i would say

733
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:51,760
that that is also

734
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:55,200
an unfair criticism of anyone who's been

735
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:58,480
in the public arena you know and has

736
00:25:03,029 --> 00:25:00,799
talked about a lot of things i mean if

737
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,039
every time you came on a show

738
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:05,760
you had to talk about porn you know i

739
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:06,159
mean

740
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:08,000
you you're you could be comfortable

741
00:25:11,269 --> 00:25:09,279
doing that because you've covered that

742
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:11,279
topic but after a while you'd be kind of

743
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:11,919
like

744
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,960
i don't need to cover that territory

745
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:17,039
every time you know i think about a lot

746
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:18,559
of different things

747
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:20,640
and i've investigated a lot of different

748
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:21,760
things and

749
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,240
you know for you to kind of pigeonhole

750
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:26,240
it is part of the process too

751
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,760
but that's kind of an aside but that

752
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:29,600
addresses that first point but the

753
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,520
second point that i think is really

754
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:33,600
central to this that i wanted you to

755
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:34,559
respond to

756
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,880
is that a lot of these social issues

757
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,799
that you seem to care about and you seem

758
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:42,240
to put a lot of energy

759
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,440
into to me they face the same dilemma

760
00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:46,880
that we're facing with the hugh

761
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:49,520
urban dilemma and that is we have to get

762
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:51,039
to the bottom

763
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,520
of whether or not there is an element of

764
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:55,200
social engineering control

765
00:26:02,470 --> 00:25:59,520
behind it so is the transgender

766
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:02,480
movement transgender rights in

767
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:05,440
particular that's one that particularly

768
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:09,279
jumps out to me as being

769
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:12,559
kind of a carrier virus for

770
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:15,039
a larger agenda that we seem to be that

771
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:16,320
seems to be cropping up

772
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:18,480
again and again so i think it's totally

773
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,679
fine for someone to go

774
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:22,559
that is absurdly crazy conspiracy

775
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:23,360
nonsense

776
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:25,600
that's an appropriate response to that

777
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:27,840
but the the counter to that would be to

778
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:28,480
say

779
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:30,960
is there any element of truth to it and

780
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:32,080
if there is

781
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,360
then how would that change

782
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:37,679
how we think about that as a social

783
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:38,880
issue

784
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:42,240
right okay so yeah i have plenty to say

785
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:42,640
on that

786
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,000
um so i don't so i've had

787
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:48,720
trans and non-binary people on my show

788
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:49,120
um

789
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:57,760
i don't think that it is a particular

790
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:01,120
or particularly or singled

791
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:04,400
out or singular issue as far as any kind

792
00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:04,880
of op

793
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:07,520
or social control codes right i think

794
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:08,640
that

795
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:11,120
there are not a singular just just to

796
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:11,919
keep it on track

797
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:13,840
not a singular issue no not at all it

798
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:14,960
doesn't matter okay okay

799
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:16,960
so so but but i think that that's

800
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:18,720
important right i think you're right

801
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:22,240
all social issues in some way are part

802
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,120
of some op

803
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:25,440
and part of social control a hundred

804
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:26,240
percent

805
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:28,320
i mean this is something that you and

806
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:29,600
now i am going to talk about

807
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:31,039
porn but it's something that you learn

808
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,440
when you do sex work right away

809
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:35,760
because you have people attacking you

810
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:36,880
instantly and saying

811
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:38,720
well yeah you said you consent to that

812
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:40,240
but actually you're just part of the

813
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:42,159
patriarchy and you've been brainwashed

814
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:43,600
and then you have to be like how do you

815
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:45,120
know you haven't been brainwashed and so

816
00:27:47,909 --> 00:27:46,240
you have a lot of people sort of

817
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:47,919
pointing fingers at each other being

818
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:48,320
like

819
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,840
no you're the one in the social control

820
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:51,440
you're the one in the social control but

821
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:52,240
the fact is

822
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:54,320
we all are to varying degrees and we're

823
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:55,440
all experiencing that

824
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:58,000
and that unfurls into our causes so

825
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:59,840
you're absolutely right to identify the

826
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:02,000
fact that when we start at any level

827
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,159
beyond what i think the fundamental

828
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:06,000
question is which is what is the human

829
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:06,799
being

830
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,240
the unfurling of the issues becomes

831
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:12,480
completely distorted in a way

832
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,399
that makes it more susceptible to social

833
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:16,000
control that can sometimes even

834
00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:17,760
turn it into social engineering and

835
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:19,600
social control that can

836
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:22,880
um rip it away from its sort of earlier

837
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:23,840
warmer

838
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:26,640
uh you know i don't know but you know

839
00:28:30,149 --> 00:28:27,120
person

840
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:30,159
human being based context um its

841
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:32,559
consciousness context and and distort it

842
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:33,840
and make it terrible so i think you're

843
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:35,039
absolutely right

844
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:37,039
um i just am i'm just pushing back on

845
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:38,640
the trans thing because i don't think

846
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,279
that that's

847
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,919
uh any different than any other issue

848
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:43,279
let's say it's not different than any

849
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:44,159
other issue

850
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:47,200
i do i want to push a little bit further

851
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:48,320
on this because i think you're kind of

852
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:48,960
pulling up

853
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,399
right at the point where it becomes

854
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:52,000
interesting it's kind of like the hube

855
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:52,799
urban thing

856
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:55,440
well it it yeah it doesn't matter it

857
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,880
only matters what people believe

858
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,559
well it only matters that yes it could

859
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,720
be an element of social control

860
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:03,120
don't we have to do a full stop don't we

861
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:04,240
have to do a reboot

862
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,279
don't we have to completely deconstruct

863
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:09,840
and re-examine everything we thought we

864
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,480
knew

865
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:12,640
i think we do let me play a little [\h__\h]

866
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,679
clip again

867
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,440
because i think the the feminism

868
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:17,200
movement and i just had an interview

869
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:17,679
with it

870
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:20,080
yesterday with this wonderful wonderful

871
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,120
person dr

872
00:29:24,789 --> 00:29:23,919
gail kimball and she was she actually

873
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:24,799
founded

874
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:28,000
the women's studies program at

875
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:31,520
uh cal state chico and a professor of

876
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:32,320
merit i

877
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:35,679
written some fantastic books but

878
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:36,799
you know i was hitting her up about the

879
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:40,240
gloria steinem thing i go gloria steiner

880
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:43,440
outed as a lifetime cia player

881
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:45,520
and what she said that i think relates

882
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:47,520
to this interview we're having here she

883
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:48,240
says

884
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:50,640
it doesn't matter it doesn't matter to

885
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,760
me because she did a lot of good

886
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,919
and that's what i hear so many people

887
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:57,600
who are interested in social

888
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:01,760
issues to talk about it doesn't matter

889
00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:04,799
and and stop right there i think

890
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:06,880
it may not matter i think that's a

891
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:08,159
potentially valid

892
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:11,360
point it may not matter but it may

893
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,159
matter

894
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:14,240
i agree with yeah i agree with you let

895
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:16,000
me play this clip and that's okay okay

896
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:18,880
okay yeah well one of the things they

897
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:21,440
told me was that um

898
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:24,960
he was at the house one night and uh

899
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:26,559
we were told he would talk and he

900
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:27,679
started laughing he said aaron what do

901
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:30,480
you think women's liberation was about

902
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,600
and uh i said i had pretty conventional

903
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:35,120
thinking about it at that point they

904
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:37,120
said things about women having the right

905
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:39,279
to work getting equal pay with men just

906
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:41,120
like they won the right to vote

907
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,559
you know and he started to laugh i said

908
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:45,120
you're an idiot and i said why am i an

909
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:46,000
idiot

910
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:47,200
he said you want me let me tell you what

911
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:49,200
that was about we the rockefellers

912
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:50,399
funded that

913
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:53,440
we funded women's lib you know and

914
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:54,480
we're the ones who got all over the

915
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:55,840
newspapers and television the

916
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:58,159
rockefeller foundation

917
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,679
he says and you wanna know why he said

918
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:02,159
there were two primary reasons

919
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,720
and they were one reason was we couldn't

920
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,480
tax half the population

921
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,799
before women's live and the second

922
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:10,159
reason was

923
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:11,600
now we get the kids in school at an

924
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:13,679
early age we can indoctrinate the kids

925
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:14,559
how to think

926
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:17,760
which breaks up their family the

927
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:19,600
kids start looking at the state as the

928
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,399
family as a school as the officials

929
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,480
as their family not as the parents

930
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:26,399
teaching them

931
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:28,640
and so those are the two prime primary

932
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:29,760
reasons for women's level

933
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:31,840
which i thought up to that point was a

934
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,960
noble thing

935
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:34,720
you know when i saw their intentions

936
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,720
behind it where they were coming from

937
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:37,840
when they created it

938
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:40,240
the thought of it i saw i saw the evil

939
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:40,960
behind

940
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:44,080
what i thought was a noble adventure

941
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:46,320
um so lots of things to pull apart there

942
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,760
so one

943
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:49,679
it does absolutely matter that gloria

944
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:51,519
steinem worked for the cia

945
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:53,440
because what we see there is a complete

946
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,080
compromise in the ethical and moral

947
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:58,320
framework in which she presented as

948
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,039
having

949
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:01,360
so we understand that she's a liar and a

950
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:02,240
phony

951
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,000
um and that she's just a posturing

952
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:05,840
figurehead so

953
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:07,760
we will get back to something deeper

954
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:08,880
than that but that

955
00:32:13,269 --> 00:32:11,919
on its own should matter to us right so

956
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:13,279
even if you want to

957
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:15,440
not accept any idea that the women's

958
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,440
liberation movement was created by the

959
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:19,039
rockefellers or whatever

960
00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:21,120
that should matter to people but the

961
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:22,399
other thing i want to say

962
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:25,600
is here's where we run into some

963
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:28,720
some complication you know my friend

964
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:29,919
monae tawi

965
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,320
you know she writes a lot about female

966
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:33,679
genital mutilation

967
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:37,039
um in uh well in many in many different

968
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:38,960
countries including the us

969
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,000
and it happens to young girls and it

970
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:45,360
is i mean truly horrific right and part

971
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:46,000
of the

972
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,200
resistance to uh the

973
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:52,080
in what i think is rightly called uh

974
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:53,200
ritual abuse

975
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:56,640
of young girls um part of the opposition

976
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:57,200
to that

977
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:59,519
comes from the sort of knock-on effect

978
00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:00,720
from this

979
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:03,840
you know women's liberation movement

980
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:07,519
which i think in in some ways was

981
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:10,320
as your guest points out funded and run

982
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:11,679
by

983
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:14,320
institutions of power in other ways not

984
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:15,760
so much because there are lots of women

985
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:16,399
liberation

986
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:19,440
pre-date that one

987
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:22,000
that have their roots in spiritual you

988
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:23,120
know practice

989
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:25,279
that have their roots in other kinds of

990
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:26,159
you know uh

991
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:28,159
traditions you know the the spiritualist

992
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:29,840
movement for instance

993
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:32,799
was a great you know entanglement with

994
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:33,120
uh

995
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:35,760
female sexual and political liberation

996
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:36,399
in the

997
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:39,360
19th century so there are all these

998
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:39,760
other

999
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:41,440
sort of precursors and then there are

1000
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:43,919
also these knock-on effects where

1001
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:45,919
a lot of people in certain countries

1002
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:48,399
feel empowered to fight against fgm to

1003
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:50,159
fight against their husbands literally

1004
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:51,279
owning them

1005
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:54,320
because of certain feminist texts that

1006
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,360
they've gotten so

1007
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:58,000
i do think on the one hand it matters

1008
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,600
and on the other hand it doesn't matter

1009
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:01,440
so we have a much more complicated

1010
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:03,039
picture than being able to say one or

1011
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,080
the other

1012
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:06,559
um well you know what actually i'm gonna

1013
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,440
roll that back

1014
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,800
it always matters it always matters but

1015
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:12,159
that doesn't mean that we can't still

1016
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:13,679
say complicated things about the good

1017
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,240
that

1018
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,839
came out of it so i guess i would

1019
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:17,520
actually revise my statement

1020
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:20,159
um but how it matters to us and the

1021
00:34:22,629 --> 00:34:20,879
kinds of

1022
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:22,639
because what i worry about alex and i

1023
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:23,919
think you've seen this before

1024
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:26,159
is that people will hear something like

1025
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,200
that interview

1026
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,879
and be like well it was all just a great

1027
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:30,480
conspiracy i mean

1028
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:32,399
women's liberation it's just you know

1029
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:35,359
rockefeller you know whatever planned op

1030
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:38,159
and it's like well okay but that's not

1031
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,879
giving us

1032
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:40,480
a fuller picture and by the way i don't

1033
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:42,240
know about that information quite so

1034
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:44,000
much i know about the gloria steinem cia

1035
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:45,679
connection and some of the other

1036
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:49,359
feminists who uh you know tried to

1037
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:51,760
you know incite war and support uh the

1038
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:53,440
israeli government and all that kind of

1039
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,839
stuff

1040
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:56,159
but i don't know and certainly all the

1041
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:57,520
anti-sex work

1042
00:35:01,430 --> 00:35:00,400
worker feminists um but i don't exactly

1043
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:01,440
know about

1044
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:03,040
that exact thing that aaron russo is

1045
00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:04,480
talking about aaron russo was that his

1046
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:05,200
name yeah

1047
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:08,640
yeah so you bring up uh a number of

1048
00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:09,680
interesting points

1049
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:11,920
and there is no substitute for deep

1050
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:17,190
and again that's what i love about what

1051
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:17,760
you do

1052
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:19,920
with your guests and people can see that

1053
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:20,960
from this interview

1054
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:24,000
is you have the ability to kind of probe

1055
00:35:29,829 --> 00:35:26,000
all the different sides of the issue

1056
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,839
and i don't i don't apologize for kind

1057
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,520
of pushing you because

1058
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:33,599
that's when this stuff gets interesting

1059
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:35,280
and i think it's also

1060
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:38,960
where where we have to go because if you

1061
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:39,680
are so

1062
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:43,760
easily manipulated by this it's like the

1063
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:45,119
trigger

1064
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,240
i i love gordon gordon white who

1065
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,320
was i was on roon soup and that's what

1066
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:53,920
originally brought you back to me but

1067
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:55,440
it's like

1068
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,480
he just frustrates me to no end like our

1069
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,640
interview who does this trigger warning

1070
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,119
oh this is a trigger warning we might

1071
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:05,280
say some things that might trigger you

1072
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:08,240
how [\h__\h] condescending can you be you

1073
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:08,880
know what

1074
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,000
if i trigger you then uh you know

1075
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,119
then that is on you what is on you

1076
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:17,520
to investigate why you're being

1077
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:18,240
triggered

1078
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:22,720
things

1079
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:25,839
it is my spiritual path to become less

1080
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:26,560
triggered

1081
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:31,440
re-integrate my triggering

1082
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:34,880
but not to not to you know create

1083
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:38,000
further perpetuate this big daddy is

1084
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,000
here to protect you kind of thing

1085
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:42,400
even if it's in a podcast form that i

1086
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:43,760
have to warn you

1087
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:46,160
that you might be triggered don't be

1088
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,040
triggered

1089
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:50,400
allow it to happen

1090
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,839
so and then i want to kind of add that

1091
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:55,440
back into the discussion we're having

1092
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:56,480
because

1093
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:59,920
you're so right about the knock-on

1094
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:00,880
effects

1095
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:03,920
but i would suggest that that is

1096
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:07,440
really the power of the co-op if you

1097
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:08,079
co-op

1098
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:11,760
a non-issue then you have no power

1099
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:15,119
if you co-op a real injustice

1100
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:18,320
then it has power my mother i'm old

1101
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:18,880
enough

1102
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:21,359
that i can tell you my mother was

1103
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,320
completely

1104
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:24,640
oppressed she wasn't particularly a good

1105
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:25,920
person had a problem with drug and

1106
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:26,800
alcohol abuse

1107
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:29,359
but still i can have tremendous empathy

1108
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:30,640
for the fact that she had zero

1109
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:31,599
opportunity

1110
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:34,960
other than to get married she had zero

1111
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:36,160
opportunity to express

1112
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:39,280
herself as an artist without being

1113
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,040
labeled and all the rest of these things

1114
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,160
those were the very rigid structural

1115
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:47,040
elements of our society that she lived

1116
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:47,680
in

1117
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:51,680
so for her uh women's liberation

1118
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:54,640
was a real thing and i get where someone

1119
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:55,520
would say

1120
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:58,880
i don't care because they look at how

1121
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:59,520
they've been

1122
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:01,440
oppressed and how their group has been

1123
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:04,320
oppressed and they say i don't

1124
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:06,320
understand how the whole thing works but

1125
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:08,079
i understand we're on the

1126
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,320
we're on the short end of the stick here

1127
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:12,320
and we need to change that

1128
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:14,880
i certainly understand that i don't know

1129
00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:17,119
what your background was like

1130
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:20,880
but growing up gay arab

1131
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:22,560
in the midwest right wasn't it

1132
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:24,720
pennsylvania pennsylvania

1133
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:28,960
yeah hey man not so easy not so great

1134
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,079
you were battling against the social

1135
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:34,800
constructs social prejudices that

1136
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:35,359
shouldn't

1137
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:38,960
be there they're not a good thing so i

1138
00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:41,440
i can totally understand someone coming

1139
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:43,520
back and saying hey

1140
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:46,320
i'm not against everyone you've chosen

1141
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:46,880
to be

1142
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:49,520
everyone is against me so my encounter

1143
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:50,880
is to say okay i

1144
00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:53,520
accept that so that's a beautiful thing

1145
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:55,040
but i would suggest that

1146
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:58,320
that is right out of the playbook

1147
00:39:01,990 --> 00:39:00,000
of course that's what they're going to

1148
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,000
co-opt is real issues

1149
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:04,880
and i and i kind of wrap up the grant

1150
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:05,280
here

1151
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:07,359
by pointing out like a tiny mistake you

1152
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:09,440
made with gloria steinem

1153
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,599
which is really the whole mistake and

1154
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:12,880
it's the whole mistake with the

1155
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,480
transgender guy

1156
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:16,960
the muslim transgender i mean they have

1157
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,480
all these kind of mixed kind of things

1158
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,320
where it just sends your head spinning

1159
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:22,240
and it's really just a psyop kind of

1160
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:24,640
thing but it's not that gloria steinem

1161
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:27,280
was a figurehead

1162
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:30,800
gloria steinem was a lifetime player

1163
00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:34,480
she was she was recruited early on

1164
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:37,359
yeah to go to the social to go to the

1165
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:39,040
student movement things

1166
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:41,680
and she came back and her cia opposite

1167
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:42,160
she's

1168
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:50,240
we haven't we have a job to do here

1169
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:53,359
buddy and she gets the job done

1170
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:57,119
so it's not that she was a figurehead

1171
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:00,000
for feminism that's really irrelevant

1172
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:03,280
what's important is how she played

1173
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:06,400
into this social engineering machine and

1174
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,880
i would

1175
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:08,880
come back again and say until we're

1176
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:11,119
really until we're willing to address

1177
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,720
that straight on

1178
00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:14,800
then i don't think we can get there and

1179
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:15,920
that's why i

1180
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:18,880
so like and respect david ike and even

1181
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:20,000
though he has a million

1182
00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:22,400
crazy ideas that don't stand up to

1183
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:23,200
scrutiny

1184
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:24,960
and even though sometimes he's weak on

1185
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:26,960
the science as i pointed out to him

1186
00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:30,160
in our interview he is fundamentally

1187
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:30,800
putting his

1188
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:34,160
finger on the issue that there is an

1189
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:37,280
organized effort a conspiracy if you

1190
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:38,000
will

1191
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:41,599
to to to mold you

1192
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:44,319
into thinking that what he calls your

1193
00:40:47,589 --> 00:40:44,720
five

1194
00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:47,599
sense mind your biological robot in a

1195
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:49,599
meaningless universe meme

1196
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:52,160
that that is who you are and that you

1197
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:53,119
are meaningless

1198
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:56,000
you are helpless you are powerless and

1199
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:56,400
that

1200
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:59,359
is part of this agenda in terms of

1201
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:01,599
identifying people

1202
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:04,079
sexually which is such a bizarre and

1203
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:05,359
absurd notion

1204
00:41:09,829 --> 00:41:08,480
to begin with because anyone with half a

1205
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:09,839
sensibility says

1206
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:13,599
what business do i have how is it even

1207
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:16,640
a concern it's some kind of crazy cult

1208
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,119
thing

1209
00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:19,040
that's associated with religion that

1210
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:20,960
even gave us the notion that we have any

1211
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:22,960
business to even have an opinion

1212
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,880
on someone's sexuality yeah yeah okay so

1213
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:29,040
there's so there's so much so let me

1214
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:30,640
just like try to

1215
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:33,359
let me just try to go on my own sort of

1216
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:36,000
rant here let's see if i can pull it off

1217
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:39,200
um so first of all to say

1218
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:42,960
that some of the best people examining

1219
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:46,160
those issues are trans

1220
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:49,119
people right so when you have people

1221
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:50,800
that are in the fray

1222
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:53,200
of the deepening of their sense of

1223
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:54,160
identity

1224
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:56,720
around gender and gender expression a

1225
00:42:02,309 --> 00:41:58,800
lot of times they're the ones going so

1226
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:02,319
deep into that that they're able to

1227
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,599
experience a kind of uh a different kind

1228
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:07,440
of revelation about it that's certainly

1229
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:09,119
true about sex work and me

1230
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:10,960
it's you know this philosopher that i

1231
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:13,200
like uh felix watery

1232
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:15,280
we call the line of flight it's like you

1233
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:17,359
do it so much that suddenly you take off

1234
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:19,040
and you can see things from a different

1235
00:42:23,349 --> 00:42:20,880
vantage point that nobody else can see

1236
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:23,359
and then you can bring real questions

1237
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:25,040
you can bring real questions

1238
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,800
but why is this important in regards to

1239
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:29,359
evil so

1240
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:32,640
as you said before using my uh the the

1241
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:34,240
thing i said that rudolph steiner said

1242
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:34,880
which is

1243
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,480
on the one hand absurd and on the other

1244
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:38,400
hand completely true

1245
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:42,400
um when we do evil in our own lives

1246
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:46,319
we through our own freedom and effort

1247
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:49,920
and uh and and incarnations we work that

1248
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:52,960
out right we take it on and we redeem it

1249
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:54,160
in ourselves through

1250
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:57,200
karma and process

1251
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:00,880
there is evil located and lodged

1252
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:03,680
in so many different social issues which

1253
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:05,359
relate to social engineering in one way

1254
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:06,240
or the other

1255
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:08,079
we can see this in a very easy way if we

1256
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:09,440
look at someone like

1257
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:11,040
martin heidegger the philosopher who

1258
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:12,560
ended up being a nazi

1259
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:15,040
but we can see that there's value in

1260
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:16,400
some of the things that he says

1261
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,760
as a philosopher we can see it in

1262
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:19,200
nietzsche we can see it in all these

1263
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:20,560
people right

1264
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,000
so when i look at philosophers like that

1265
00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:26,560
i need to look at i can't just do this

1266
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:28,160
[\h__\h] thing which people do

1267
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,760
all the time which i find completely

1268
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:31,680
objectionable which is well you just

1269
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:33,200
take the good and you leave the bad just

1270
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:34,560
move on with the good stuff because that

1271
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:34,960
doesn't

1272
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:36,960
address the foundational thing that you

1273
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:38,720
bring up all the time

1274
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,960
what i need to do is find out how the

1275
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:42,880
good and the bad are entangled

1276
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:46,640
and liberate that philosophy from itself

1277
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:49,040
so it becomes redeemed because evil

1278
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,480
almost always not always

1279
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:52,720
but almost always wants to actually be

1280
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:53,760
redeemed and

1281
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,880
saved by us and by our fruitful action

1282
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:58,960
so when i look at these social movements

1283
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:59,920
whatever they are

1284
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:01,119
and the ways that they are either

1285
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:03,040
created or entangled in social

1286
00:44:06,069 --> 00:44:04,079
engineering

1287
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:06,079
my job is not to be like well you know

1288
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:07,440
there's good stuff that came out of it

1289
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,200
so just ignore the bad or

1290
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:11,920
it's all bad so condemn it my work is to

1291
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:13,200
go deep into that

1292
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:15,440
and transform it by seeing those

1293
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,319
connections and

1294
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:18,880
liberate it from itself and that's what

1295
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:19,520
we do

1296
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:22,319
in the task of evil all the time in

1297
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,119
ourselves

1298
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:25,119
through our karma but we also need to do

1299
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:27,440
it socially and in these issues

1300
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,200
i think that's wonderful and i think

1301
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:30,960
that you're talking about something very

1302
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:34,240
spiritual there in terms of

1303
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:36,880
your spiritual journey and your personal

1304
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:37,839
spiritual journey

1305
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,640
and about transformation but i am going

1306
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,400
to kind of persist on this other issue

1307
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:44,640
because i think it gets us back to

1308
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:48,160
the evil question in a larger sense

1309
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,240
because i'm totally down with what

1310
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:52,880
you're saying about from a personal

1311
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:56,319
evil thing and a personal evil thing

1312
00:45:01,910 --> 00:44:59,359
in a lot of ways is so evil so easy

1313
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:01,920
because we all confront our personal

1314
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:02,640
evil

1315
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:05,680
all the time and we identify with it and

1316
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:06,400
we

1317
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:11,040
usually have to come to grips with

1318
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:12,480
sooner or later

1319
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:15,040
the collective evil i think is a little

1320
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:16,240
bit harder

1321
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:19,119
and what i notice in what i'm calling

1322
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:19,680
out

1323
00:45:23,270 --> 00:45:22,560
is a certain avoidance of wanting to

1324
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,280
look at that

1325
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:25,839
collective evil and i'd return to my

1326
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:26,319
buddy

1327
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:29,599
david ike again because i think i think

1328
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:32,079
what he's saying is quite profound if

1329
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:33,119
there is

1330
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:38,079
an overall agenda aimed at consciousness

1331
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:41,599
to intentionally separate you from your

1332
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:44,079
connection to higher consciousness

1333
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:47,599
and part of that agenda is to reinforce

1334
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:49,040
your connection to

1335
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:52,079
technology to materialism

1336
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,560
to biological robot in a meaningless

1337
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:55,920
universe

1338
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,119
then i think we need to understand if

1339
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:00,480
that's real

1340
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:03,359
if that's in play and i think we need to

1341
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:03,760
take

1342
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:06,079
action accordingly and we could talk

1343
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,920
about what that action is

1344
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,839
do you get why i'm persisting on that do

1345
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,240
you do you think we've nailed that or no

1346
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:14,480
yeah i'm a little confused because i

1347
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:15,440
think what i said

1348
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:17,520
sort of addresses what you're talking

1349
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:19,280
about so

1350
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:22,560
a hundred percent i agree with you and i

1351
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:24,640
by the way agree with david ike's

1352
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,839
assessment

1353
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:27,520
um at least in the terms that you framed

1354
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:28,960
it in that there is

1355
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:32,880
a technocratic control project underway

1356
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,000
and it is linked to definitive

1357
00:46:41,349 --> 00:46:39,119
evil not just

1358
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,359
hurt people hurting people or people

1359
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:43,440
being confused or whatever but there is

1360
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:44,400
actually

1361
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,680
an agenda now there's a deeper question

1362
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:49,040
as to whether or not that agenda is

1363
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:50,000
actually set by

1364
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,280
the spiritual world um

1365
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,920
or if it's set by individuals or

1366
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,839
individuals influenced by the spiritual

1367
00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:59,920
realm in a specific way

1368
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:02,480
um or acting it out so i think there are

1369
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:03,920
all these questions that we have to sort

1370
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:04,720
through as well

1371
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:06,800
but that seems very clear to me i agree

1372
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:08,319
with you there and that

1373
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:11,040
presses a question upon us of tactics

1374
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:12,240
and strategy

1375
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:14,640
but i think what i'm talking about is

1376
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,000
actually part of it

1377
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:18,560
which is um we need to have a certain

1378
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:19,440
approach

1379
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:22,400
to evil when we see it which is one

1380
00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:24,000
knowing that it wants to be liberated

1381
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,559
from itself that it wants to be redeemed

1382
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:28,160
um and we can see that in our own

1383
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:29,760
anatomy and experience

1384
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:31,280
if we accept the principle of

1385
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:33,200
reincarnation which i'm not gonna go

1386
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,480
into whether or not we should you've

1387
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:36,000
done a lot of shows on it i think it's

1388
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:37,200
pretty definitive

1389
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:40,720
that that's the thing but i think um

1390
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:44,000
we so we know from our own

1391
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:46,000
spiritual anatomy that that's happening

1392
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:47,440
and we need to bring that

1393
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:49,119
intentionally to the way that we

1394
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:51,520
approach evil in the world which is

1395
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:54,079
what matters is how i greet you evil

1396
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:55,599
what matters is how i greet you because

1397
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:56,640
that's the only way

1398
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:58,800
it's like a chinese finger trap the more

1399
00:48:02,069 --> 00:48:01,280
i struggle in the wrong way the tighter

1400
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,079
it gets

1401
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,839
but i need to find the right way to let

1402
00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,520
that it relax

1403
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:07,920
so i can remove myself so i can approach

1404
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:08,559
in the

1405
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:11,760
proper way so after that there still are

1406
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:12,480
some tactic

1407
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,400
what the [\h__\h] do we do

1408
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:18,640
about the fact without even going into

1409
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:19,599
5g

1410
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:21,119
what do we do about the fact that our

1411
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:23,520
media including this that we're on right

1412
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:24,240
now

1413
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:28,000
is carried by uh microwaves

1414
00:48:33,190 --> 00:48:31,359
that are divided like a flipbook

1415
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:33,200
you know to carry certain amounts of

1416
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:35,920
information and suddenly lo and behold

1417
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,839
people have a hard time paying attention

1418
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:39,760
to things things come to us in sound

1419
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:40,480
bites

1420
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:42,800
uh things come in little blips and sort

1421
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:44,240
of bizarro

1422
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:47,040
like you know two second things it's

1423
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:48,079
because

1424
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:50,480
the actual medium of transfer of

1425
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:51,440
information

1426
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:54,319
is affecting how we receive and reflect

1427
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:54,640
on

1428
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:57,520
the world in general so how do we deal

1429
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,119
with the fact that the actual

1430
00:49:04,630 --> 00:49:02,400
media like not the actual

1431
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:04,640
transfer of information is having a

1432
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:07,119
disruptive effect on our consciousness

1433
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:11,119
do we tear down cell phone towers do we

1434
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:13,359
take material action do we find the

1435
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:15,520
culprit and punish them do we create

1436
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:16,079
counter

1437
00:49:21,270 --> 00:49:19,040
devices do we engage in occult

1438
00:49:22,150 --> 00:49:21,280
technologies do we practice magic do we

1439
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:22,160
pray

1440
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,400
those questions all rise to the surface

1441
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:26,559
when we look around and we find

1442
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:27,440
ourselves

1443
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:31,599
in a pool of evil in a pool of a problem

1444
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,920
and so we have tactical questions ahead

1445
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:35,760
of us that aren't just

1446
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:38,800
um well i'll just be a good person right

1447
00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:40,880
now you can do that and everything will

1448
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:42,079
be all right

1449
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:45,200
sure but the question is do we

1450
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,440
want a thousand years of suffering

1451
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:49,119
before everything's all right or do we

1452
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:50,800
want like 20 years of

1453
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:53,040
like difficulty and then we get it right

1454
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:54,480
you know i mean i think that that's a

1455
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:55,599
real question

1456
00:50:00,870 --> 00:49:58,640
and um maybe that sounds materialistic

1457
00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:00,880
but i also don't like suffering

1458
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:03,040
so i'm just gonna go with my own you

1459
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:04,559
know likes and desires there and i don't

1460
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:06,160
think other people do either and i think

1461
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,559
it's

1462
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:08,480
part of my spiritual responsibility to

1463
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,599
help people with that

1464
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:11,359
and not just leave the earth in my

1465
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:12,880
thinking and be like well everything's

1466
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,870
what are your thoughts on right action

1467
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:23,040
because i think this is something that

1468
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:24,800
we all wrestle with

1469
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:27,040
and that is the being versus doing

1470
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:28,000
question

1471
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:31,280
and is working on myself

1472
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:34,800
working to not be triggered working to

1473
00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:37,920
find the warmth and humanity

1474
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,640
as you talked about in the beginning is

1475
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:42,640
that enough

1476
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:45,200
does god need our help the gods need our

1477
00:50:51,430 --> 00:50:47,119
help but god does not

1478
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:51,440
so um if you're serious about that

1479
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:53,359
you would have to break that down well

1480
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:54,480
you know we still have

1481
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:58,000
20 minutes um or more a half hour before

1482
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:58,720
i have to go

1483
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:01,520
so let me just let me just lay it on you

1484
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:02,400
yes

1485
00:51:05,430 --> 00:51:04,400
yeah um i wouldn't call it a hierarchy

1486
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,440
of consciousness i would call it a

1487
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,520
hierarchy of consciousness a hierarchy

1488
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:08,960
of conscious

1489
00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:12,800
appear as entities

1490
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:15,920
um from the vantage point that we're at

1491
00:51:19,589 --> 00:51:18,400
when actually it's just more sort of

1492
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:19,599
topological

1493
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:24,480
but um yeah some kind of topology

1494
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:28,640
yeah so um well let me let me let me get

1495
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:30,079
back to the original statement which is

1496
00:51:34,829 --> 00:51:32,319
the gods need our help but god does not

1497
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,839
i mean god is first of all god is so far

1498
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:36,000
beyond

1499
00:51:39,670 --> 00:51:38,000
what most of us understand that i can't

1500
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:39,680
i'm not going to even

1501
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:41,760
it's hard for me to apprehend that from

1502
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:44,240
my standpoint and from my vantage point

1503
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:46,640
um but okay if you want to say some sort

1504
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:48,640
of totality or whatever

1505
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:51,920
um the the totality of the consciousness

1506
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:53,040
state

1507
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:55,680
but as far as the other beings go we

1508
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:56,559
even see

1509
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:58,880
this weird turning point in mythology

1510
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:59,839
you know with with

1511
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,359
with theseus and the minotaur and all

1512
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:03,040
this kind of stuff where the gods are

1513
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:04,160
suddenly asking

1514
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:06,000
for humans to help them complete their

1515
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:07,520
tasks and before that

1516
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,440
you see the gods sort of you know i'm

1517
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:11,200
not using this as a reality claim just

1518
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:12,319
use it as a metaphor

1519
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:15,280
where you see the gods sort of um

1520
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:17,200
positioning people as pawns and moving

1521
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:18,480
them around and all that kind of stuff

1522
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,599
and then suddenly

1523
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,359
as consciousness begins to change and

1524
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:23,440
evolve the gods are like hey could you

1525
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:24,079
help me

1526
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:27,440
with this thing you know and so

1527
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:31,040
we see in our in our own lives as

1528
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:33,760
the sort of uh the way that

1529
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,520
consciousness evolves to reflect a

1530
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:37,760
certain kind of freedom a certain kind

1531
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:38,800
of free will

1532
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:40,960
a certain kind of uh difference from the

1533
00:52:44,470 --> 00:52:42,000
kind of

1534
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:44,480
deterministic ways that we might have

1535
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:46,400
lived in before

1536
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:49,280
um then we have different duties and

1537
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:51,200
different responsibilities

1538
00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:53,760
and with those come different dangers

1539
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:54,800
and so

1540
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:58,400
yes there are uh i'll just state

1541
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,880
outright there are angelic beings

1542
00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:02,319
archangels

1543
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:05,680
that want us to align with them

1544
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:09,440
for this battle against evil um

1545
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:11,280
and from their vantage point the battle

1546
00:53:16,630 --> 00:53:12,880
against evil looks very different than

1547
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:16,640
from ours but they can't do it

1548
00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:18,880
on their own because we have free will

1549
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,280
because we're not biological robots

1550
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:23,440
that invites in the possibility well we

1551
00:53:25,829 --> 00:53:24,640
talked about this the last time

1552
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:25,839
i was on the show but that invites them

1553
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:28,240
the possibility of us doing evil

1554
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:31,280
so we actually have to

1555
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:33,440
get right with them and that includes a

1556
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:34,559
lot of different things

1557
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,800
that include study contemplation prayer

1558
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:38,079
it also includes

1559
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:40,480
the very basic guiding principles for us

1560
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,359
which are

1561
00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:43,680
freedom and compassion i mean that's

1562
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:45,599
really it like if you can just drill

1563
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:46,640
down

1564
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:49,680
but that sounds easy but it's not easy

1565
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:51,280
and that sounds simple but it's not

1566
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:52,000
simple

1567
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:53,680
i appreciate you laying all that out and

1568
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:55,520
just being so direct about it

1569
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:58,319
i'm not sure that i agree and i really

1570
00:54:01,990 --> 00:53:59,520
want to get out there

1571
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:02,000
an alternative perspective i mean i may

1572
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:02,800
agree

1573
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:04,880
a lot of people are saying what you're

1574
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:06,400
saying and they make a good case for it

1575
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,079
and there's certainly a lot of

1576
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:10,319
human experience that would pack up what

1577
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:11,680
you're saying in terms of

1578
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:13,920
i love angel stories i love angel

1579
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:15,440
accounts i'm

1580
00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:18,480
not inclined to dismiss them because

1581
00:54:23,349 --> 00:54:20,079
they have a lot of connection

1582
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:23,359
but here is kind of the the kind of

1583
00:54:26,950 --> 00:54:24,400
yogic

1584
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:26,960
non-dual perspective however it gets

1585
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,720
cast but i think is important and i'm

1586
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:30,240
particularly drawn to

1587
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:33,119
western interpretations of that non-dual

1588
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:34,000
perspective

1589
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:35,599
and one is kind of an eastern and the

1590
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,599
guy's a creep and uh

1591
00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:39,599
this is back to your workout all these

1592
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:41,359
complicated people but the

1593
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:45,200
tm guy maharashi mahesh yogi you know

1594
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:48,720
who is a creep and is a cult

1595
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:50,559
kind of founder but at the same time

1596
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:52,880
i've talked to enough of his people that

1597
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:54,720
he had some spiritual energy some pure

1598
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:56,400
spiritual power and some spiritual

1599
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:57,200
insights

1600
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:59,200
that we shouldn't ignore and i love the

1601
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:00,960
way that you talk about

1602
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:04,400
uh you know liberating the truths from

1603
00:55:08,309 --> 00:55:06,640
the falsehoods in a way that kind of

1604
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:08,319
empowers us to transform

1605
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:10,319
anyways long way around the barn of

1606
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:11,680
saying

1607
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:14,400
it's all in the middle is the essence of

1608
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:14,880
that

1609
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:18,480
demons and angels

1610
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:21,440
have at it but you are ultimately trying

1611
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:22,240
to

1612
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:25,680
transcend all of that so if your

1613
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:28,960
transcendence of that is to engage

1614
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:31,920
well that may be good or it may not be

1615
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:32,480
good

1616
00:55:36,470 --> 00:55:34,079
but what some of those folks are

1617
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:36,480
advising us and it seems to make sense

1618
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:37,040
to me

1619
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:40,240
is that you don't need to engage because

1620
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:41,280
your ultimate

1621
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:44,480
goal is to transcend

1622
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,520
that as well and get down to the core

1623
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,839
essence of your connection to that

1624
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:51,200
higher consciousness

1625
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:54,640
without the need for the intermediary

1626
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:55,440
realm

1627
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:57,520
and you know what's consistent what i've

1628
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:58,480
heard about that

1629
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:01,359
is that most of this evil we're talking

1630
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:02,160
about

1631
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:05,440
is not very powerful

1632
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:08,559
in the bigger scheme of things and

1633
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:11,599
we often engage in empowering it

1634
00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:15,200
by engaging with it and that can go in a

1635
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:16,400
million different directions if we don't

1636
00:56:18,390 --> 00:56:17,440
have time to go this could be after talk

1637
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:18,400
really fast because you only have 20

1638
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:19,599
minutes left but

1639
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:22,079
there we go well yeah okay so um first

1640
00:56:26,309 --> 00:56:22,880
of all that's

1641
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:26,319
to me an op um so i want to address that

1642
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:26,799
as an

1643
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:30,079
op in and of itself why because the

1644
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:33,280
idea of transcendence um

1645
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:35,599
is this this is what people who do like

1646
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:37,680
advaita vedanta like oh all

1647
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:39,520
is energy it's all well everything's

1648
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,720
perfect all that

1649
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:42,720
that's true but you can't i think that

1650
00:56:46,230 --> 00:56:44,400
that's true on a certain level

1651
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:46,240
but pretending that you're accessing

1652
00:56:50,789 --> 00:56:47,920
that when there are people

1653
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:50,799
suffering and those people are a part of

1654
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:51,280
you

1655
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:54,640
through consciousness

1656
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,960
and through what it means to be human is

1657
00:57:02,069 --> 00:56:58,240
a dereliction

1658
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:02,079
of duty to yourself to heaven

1659
00:57:05,109 --> 00:57:03,839
um or whatever you want to call it to

1660
00:57:07,750 --> 00:57:05,119
the cosmos

1661
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:07,760
and i think that you know this idea of

1662
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:08,559
transparency

1663
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,680
people are going to people are going to

1664
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:11,599
get tired of the same old skeptical

1665
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:12,400
stories but

1666
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:13,680
and i think i haven't shared this with

1667
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:15,119
you on the last one they did but you got

1668
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:15,440
the

1669
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:19,040
so amma

1670
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:22,880
the hugging saint fully engaged

1671
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,400
in life working with people tirelessly

1672
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:28,319
she's an old lady i don't know how she

1673
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:28,880
does it

1674
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:32,640
18 hours a day of hugging people

1675
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:35,680
the ultimate gift of connection or

1676
00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:38,240
digging trenches with the untouchables

1677
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:40,160
in india what a contradiction that is

1678
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:41,119
that we have this

1679
00:57:44,789 --> 00:57:43,200
gift of a jewel of spirituality of india

1680
00:57:45,990 --> 00:57:44,799
and they've created this system where

1681
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:46,000
they have untouchables

1682
00:57:50,309 --> 00:57:49,200
it's another way that evil manifests

1683
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,319
itself

1684
00:57:54,230 --> 00:57:52,480
so you have a person it is totally

1685
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:54,240
engaged in

1686
00:57:57,910 --> 00:57:56,640
the act of loving and giving and

1687
00:58:00,309 --> 00:57:57,920
engagement and warmth

1688
00:58:01,510 --> 00:58:00,319
and humanity but when pressed for why

1689
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:01,520
she does that

1690
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,880
when the whole thing is supposed to be

1691
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:05,040
transcended she says world

1692
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:08,960
what world she is not even in this world

1693
00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:11,760
on her spiritual level but she realizes

1694
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:13,760
that the the paradox that

1695
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:16,000
in her actions she can be totally

1696
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:16,880
engaged

1697
00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:19,359
she can be the guy who will jump in

1698
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:21,520
front of the bullet to save someone else

1699
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:25,040
who will save annika lucas from

1700
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:27,760
ritual sexual abuse and murder and will

1701
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:28,880
ultimately die

1702
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:31,920
because of it so there's many acts great

1703
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:32,720
and small

1704
00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:35,040
of kindness from people who are

1705
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:36,880
committed to

1706
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,640
transcendence yeah so okay you're right

1707
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,040
like i'm not i'm not typifying like the

1708
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:45,119
entire idea of

1709
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:48,000
i live uh at least partially in the

1710
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:48,880
spiritual

1711
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:52,000
realm because i've transcended

1712
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:53,200
i'm talking about the idea of

1713
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:55,440
transcendence like um

1714
00:59:02,829 --> 00:58:59,280
you know like the idea of leaving

1715
00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:02,839
the kind of responsibility of

1716
00:59:09,750 --> 00:59:06,960
materiality behind here's the reason

1717
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,760
and this goes back to the reality claim

1718
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:11,119
the being

1719
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,400
that is causing the trouble right now

1720
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:16,799
that is the you know a lot of people

1721
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:18,400
like to use this term arkhan i'm not a

1722
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:19,440
fan of it but

1723
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:21,280
for people to understand the archon or

1724
00:59:23,990 --> 00:59:22,559
whatever

1725
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:24,000
the being that's causing all the trouble

1726
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:26,240
right now is a being whose anatomy

1727
00:59:33,589 --> 00:59:30,240
is composed of materialism when we

1728
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:33,599
decide to transcend this plane we're

1729
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:35,839
actually leaving that being behind

1730
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:37,760
so we might be doing all the kinds of

1731
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:39,520
work that we're supposed to be doing for

1732
00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:40,559
each other and all that

1733
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:42,319
but the spiritual realm is being

1734
00:59:46,950 --> 00:59:43,760
neglected because that

1735
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:46,960
being out of its own essence has no

1736
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:48,240
choice but to draw us

1737
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:52,079
all towards materialistic uh existence

1738
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:54,480
and so we think we're being so great

1739
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:55,200
because

1740
00:59:59,430 --> 00:59:57,680
we i mean with all due respect to amma

1741
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:59,440
who seems pretty great

1742
01:00:03,270 --> 01:00:01,200
we think we're doing so great because we

1743
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,280
are transcending and and hugging people

1744
01:00:06,069 --> 01:00:04,799
and saying well what world is there and

1745
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,079
all that kind of stuff

1746
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,400
but as long as we even if we just did

1747
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:10,799
all that and every other human being was

1748
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:11,680
perfect

1749
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:13,520
we're leaving the spiritual beings

1750
01:00:16,470 --> 01:00:15,599
behind and we have a responsibility to

1751
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:16,480
them as well

1752
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:18,000
now i don't think that's all that's

1753
01:00:21,109 --> 01:00:19,280
happening there but i just want to bring

1754
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:21,119
that up as one point

1755
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,480
that evil waits to be redeemed by us

1756
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:26,880
through love and when we don't do that

1757
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:28,640
because we just live in the spiritual

1758
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:30,559
realm we're actually giving up

1759
01:00:34,870 --> 01:00:33,359
on suffering that needs to be

1760
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:34,880
transformed

1761
01:00:39,030 --> 01:00:36,960
your awesomeness continues to shine

1762
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,040
connor what's going on with

1763
01:00:42,309 --> 01:00:41,520
against everyone and you said the books

1764
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:42,319
next year

1765
01:00:45,510 --> 01:00:43,920
what other projects are you working on

1766
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:45,520
there in ireland

1767
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,160
what's going on i'm i'm trying to like

1768
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:50,319
take in as much of ireland as possible

1769
01:00:54,470 --> 01:00:52,000
i'd like to know

1770
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:54,480
the land and the the spiritual beings

1771
01:00:58,390 --> 01:00:55,119
here better

1772
01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:58,400
i'd like to understand um a lot you know

1773
01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,319
so i'm trying to learn the language

1774
01:01:02,789 --> 01:01:02,000
learn music all that kind of stuff like

1775
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:02,799
just take it all

1776
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:06,720
in um give us a little uh a bit of the

1777
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:07,760
language

1778
01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:14,150
no i'm terrible at it um the the irish

1779
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:14,799
language is

1780
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:17,760
uh very complicated um well all

1781
01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:19,200
languages are complicated for me because

1782
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:20,880
i'm a total dummy about them but

1783
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:24,480
uh except english so um

1784
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:27,760
so i'm not the don't ask me to do

1785
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:29,040
that that's the most challenging

1786
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:30,799
skeptical question so far

1787
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:34,079
in this episode um but uh

1788
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:36,000
yeah and against everyone it just

1789
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:39,440
continues to it continues to grow i mean

1790
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:42,799
i think not that anybody's asking this

1791
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:45,760
but i think like you as an example are

1792
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:46,880
for me

1793
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:49,359
um and some other podcasters but there

1794
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:50,960
aren't a lot of them

1795
01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:53,280
who just decide you know i want to have

1796
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:55,680
this conversation because it's important

1797
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:57,200
for me to have this conversation but

1798
01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:58,720
it's also important for this

1799
01:02:01,670 --> 01:02:00,799
conversation to radiate and to go out

1800
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:01,680
there

1801
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:03,680
and um if you don't have a podcast

1802
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:04,720
yourself

1803
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:07,280
you know the idea behind my show is that

1804
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,520
and i think yours too in a way is like

1805
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:11,200
maybe these conversations will happen in

1806
01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:12,960
people's lives if i just

1807
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:15,359
display the ones that i'm having you

1808
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:16,799
know because that's really important

1809
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:18,880
because these questions are important so

1810
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:21,359
i'm just gonna keep following that you

1811
01:02:26,150 --> 01:02:22,480
know

1812
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:26,160
right on to that against everyone with

1813
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:27,359
conor habib

1814
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:30,480
wouldn't have it any other way connor

1815
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:32,799
thanks again that's awesome never

1816
01:02:36,309 --> 01:02:34,559
disappoint my friend you never

1817
01:02:37,430 --> 01:02:36,319
disappoint so thank you so much for

1818
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:37,440
coming on

1819
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:40,400
yeah thanks alex i love talking with you

1820
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:42,319
thanks again to connor habib for joining

1821
01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:44,720
me today on skeptico

1822
01:02:48,069 --> 01:02:46,799
the one question i'd have to tee up from

1823
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:48,079
this interview

1824
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:50,559
has to do with what i think is his

1825
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:51,680
excellent point

1826
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:54,960
about just take the good and leave the

1827
01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:55,920
bad

1828
01:03:00,789 --> 01:02:58,240
i i think he's really on to something

1829
01:03:03,150 --> 01:03:00,799
about it's more complicated

1830
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:03,160
than that and i think we all have

1831
01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:04,400
misgivings

1832
01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:08,319
about the bad that we have to swallow

1833
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:11,520
with what we're told is good so

1834
01:03:16,069 --> 01:03:14,400
what do you think about that let me know

1835
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:16,079
pop on over to the skeptical forum

1836
01:03:19,589 --> 01:03:18,880
drop a note or send me an email or

1837
01:03:22,470 --> 01:03:19,599
however

1838
01:03:24,230 --> 01:03:22,480
else you would like to connect please do

1839
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:24,240
so it's so wonderful

1840
01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:26,559
to find out who's out there and to find

1841
01:03:30,230 --> 01:03:27,359
out

1842
01:03:31,829 --> 01:03:30,240
what's going on in this little community

1843
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:31,839
that we have

1844
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,319
so i have some interesting stuff coming

1845
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:36,400
up on skeptico

1846
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:38,720
please stay with me for all of that

1847
01:03:45,290 --> 01:03:40,079
until next time